Goofus & Gallant

[SuspendedAnimation]

From a mass email in my inbox:

Both families have 2 parents, 2 children and live in California. "Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.

"John Illegal" also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,
and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal... $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week = $52,000 per year.

Now take 30% away for state and federal tax. Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

John Illegal... $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week = $31,200.00 per year. John Illegal pays no taxes. John Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays for Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage. $1000.00 per month = $12,000.00 per year.

Joe Legal now has $19,231.00.

John Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year.

John Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money to be eligible for Food Stamps or Welfare so Joe Legal pays for food... $1,000.00 per month = $12,000.00 per year.

Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

John Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare.

John Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month = $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal is now in the hole -$4,769.00.

John Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy, which covers half of his rent of $1,000.00 per month = $12,000.00 per year.

John Illegal now has $19,200.00.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays and gets a part-time job after work to make ends meet.

John Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and John Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while John Illegal's children get free government sponsored lunches.

Joe Legal's children go home after school. John Illegal's children have an after school ESL program which, again, is provided free of charge.

Joe Legal and John Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe Legal paid for them and John Illegal did not pay.

[vinyl]

John 'legal' and John 'illegal'?
Feh.
While I dont disagree that SOME people cheat the system, the whole email rubs me the wrong way. It, to me seems to be indicating that all 'legals' are screwed, while all 'illegals' are.. well evil.
I think what really depresses me though, is that jon legal is either not earning enough to live reasonably, or that he's living beyond his means - the fact that by the end he's what...negative $12000 before he gets a part time job kind of says to me that wages are too low or expenses are too high for the average man. Which concerns me far more than the dickheads who cheat the system.
Ugh. sick, left work to come home to sleep. Bad Johns.

[fayfay]

$1000 a month for a family of four for medical insurance??!! holy crap!!

i didn't realize if you were illegal you could get 100% dental coverage. hell i should tell tres to stop paying his premiums!!

fayfay

[vinyl]

$1000 a month for a family of four for medical insurance??!! holy crap!!

Like, high costs like this is, I think a contributing factor to why people try to cheat the system. I'm not saying that it's the right thing to do at all, but I can I guess understand when faced with vital costs like healthcare and rent and food that you simply cannot cover working fulltime - how cheating the system might be something you would think about.

[SuspendedAnimation]

As it was, I modified the content before posting it because the original had John (aka Jose in the original) only coughing up $500/mo to live which totally broke away from the apples-to-apples comparison throughout the rest of the piece.

Fay, John and Joe live in California where it's uber-liberal in terms of hand-outs, including to illegals. Where's Mark when ya need him? (Our Mark.) He mentioned at least once the illegals who would use & abuse the emergency rooms at his hospital and he's in CA.

[fayfay]

isn't that state in major financial crisis? stopping the gravy train might be a good start!

fayfay

[SuspendedAnimation]

Yep, California is going bankrupt because they've essentially driven out the high-earners to other states and now there's not enough of an income tax revenue-generating base to keep all the social programs functioning. People got IOU's instead of their tax refunds in April, for crying out loud!

Which reminds me that I need to change my tax withholding so that I no longer use the government as a savings account. (I always overwithhold at Single-0 and then get a nice chunk of change as a refund after the year is over which I then use for a fun vacation. But I think it's time to make sure the money is in MY hands, not the government's hands!)

[lavender]

California is going bankrupt because they've essentially driven out the high-earners to other states and now there's not enough of an income tax revenue-generating base to keep all the social programs functioning.

and so what are they talking about doing to balance the budget? lay off state workers.

IOU's for tax refunds? then why can't we use IOU's to pay our taxes?

[Ice]

He mentioned at least once the illegals who would use & abuse the emergency rooms at his hospital and he's in CA.

well i can tell you thats the same in illinois and wisconsin, and its not just illegals. its also american joe smith who needs his Dilaudid fix. Not to mention the millions of people who cant wait till the doctor is open the next day to take care of their tummy ache.

of course that may have something to do with illinois 50% social services cut.

those type of emails always point out very important things and theres a lot of truth in it. but i would like to see emails that show comparisons of Mr. Upper Class Legal and Mr. Middle Class legal.
its just more acceptable (and powerful) to point out the "Jose's" then "johns"

[lavender]

what i don't get is how "john illegal" qualifies for all those programs since he's not a US citizen and when he applied for them they'd find out he was here illegally.

not that i've really studied it, or the health care reform they're still debating and trying to fix. i hope they get that fixed to something reasonable - i do agree that everyone should have access to health care but done in a way that makes sense, not just pass something for the sake of being able to say they've passed it.

there just aren't any simple solutions, to either situation.

[SuspendedAnimation]

For what it's worth, here's the health care reform thread we've got going at BPDR if you wanna see both sides of the debate, facts, figures, articles, opinions, etc.

I think CA (and some other places) have laws that state urgent medical care cannot be denied based on a person's inability to pay. But yeah, I don't get the food stamps and housing subsidy thing.

The thing is - that email refers to John Illegal having "no documented income" but doesn't necessarily address the requirements of proving citizenship. If John has good enough forged documents, he might be able to get the basic things (drivers license, etc.) that most places would accept for the application. Most of these things aren't as tough to apply for as a passport and that's something I don't think John Illegal could really qualify for, ya know?